[SDL] SDL 1.3 status ?

Forest Hale havoc at ghdigital.com
Thu Jul 28 03:52:12 PDT 2011

The compatibility layer is probably superfluous and confusing, but that said I currently use SDL_SetVideoMode in darkplaces because I have yet to implement relative mouse motion in SDL 1.3 on Windows 
and Linux (yeah, keep pestering me about that) and the SDL_SetVideoMode code does have relative mouse motion it seems :P

Regarding 2D acceleration, I do agree that it may not be "necessary" in any real sense in SDL, and that everyone should use OpenGL or D3D directly, but this adds a significant burden to people who 
specifically used 2D to avoid this headache on each platform - especially the differences between OpenGL and OpenGL ES are of interest here :)

On 07/28/2011 03:36 AM, Tim Angus wrote:
> tl;dr version:
> * Don't be silly, HW acceleration on Linux is ubiquitous now and has been for some time.
> * It doesn't make sense to extend the SDL rendering API now when OpenGL is available everywhere that matters and SDL is never going to be able to compete with it on a functionality basis anyway.
> On 28/07/2011 01:00, Mason Wheeler wrote:
>> I'm sure the desktop Linux folks will raise a big hue and cry about
>> it again because they can't seem to get working OpenGL drivers in a
>> lot of cases, but the fact of the matteris, desktop Linux is
>> irrelevant because the actual users are simply not using it. The
>> seriousplatforms today are Windows (guaranteed D3D and GL in 99%+ of
>> all cases), mobile *nix (guaranteed GLES on all platforms I'm aware
>> of) and, to a much lesser extent, OSX (guaranteedGL in all cases).
>> Desktop Linux *still* has less than 1% market share, and only a
>> fraction of that tiny fraction actually cares about gaming. And for
>> them, there's still SDL 1.2.
> You're about 5 years out of date. If you install e.g. Ubuntu today it
> /requires/ hardware acceleration to work as intended and certainly
> doesn't need any manual configuration. If you're going to try and support your argument with information, at least make sure said information is correct in the first place ;). It's fallacious to say
> that desktop Linux is any more or less of a factor in guiding SDL's direction than any other platform, in my opinion.
>> It makes no sense to let a tiny fraction of a percent hold SDL
>> 1.3/2.0 back from implementing modern rendering features.
> I think the problem is that SDL serves two relatively distinct purposes:
> 1. A platform abstration layer.
> 2. An API for 2D rendering.
> Hopefully we can agree that everyone cares about 1; it is the reason SDL
> exists in the first place. Now, the people that primarily use SDL for this purpose basically don't care about the rendering API. I count myself in this category.
> The other use case for SDL is as a means to write simple games, with simple being the operative word. It is after all what the S in SDL stands for. The people that have invested time in using SDL for
> this purpose may have outgrown the limitations of this API and, rightly or wrongly, feel that it is now holding them back. They may now be getting to the stage where their games aren't so simple any
> more. I think this is where you are.
> For what it's worth, I reckon the question is not one of what is stopping the SDL rendering API being extended, it is whether or not it's appropriate to do so in the first place. OpenGL is already
> there as a portable and vastly more capable API than anything SDL is or can aspire to be, so what is the point in trying to make SDL encroach on its capabilities?
> I acknowledge (and have sympathy with) the argument that OpenGL is harder to learn than the SDL rendering API, but it's not that bad really. For the purposes of doing simple 2D games, the required
> OpenGL is pretty minimal, to be honest.
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Author of DarkPlaces Quake1 engine - http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces
Co-designer of Nexuiz - http://alientrap.org/nexuiz
"War does not prove who is right, it proves who is left." - Unknown
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo." - James Klass
"A game is a series of interesting choices." - Sid Meier

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